Episode Transcript
[00:00:13] Speaker A: Hey, welcome everyone to another episode of the Jonathan Project podcast where iron is sharpening iron. And we take the example from Jonathan and his good friend and future King David as the inspiration for this show. If you want Jason and me to come out to a men's event, one of your businesses, something you have going on, and you found inspiration in this podcast, please reach out to us at The Jonathan Project PodcastMail.com Again, the Jonathan Project Podcast. Mail. Com. Jason, hey, welcome to another great show. I'm glad you're here. I know you're traveling this week, but we also have a special guest and I'll let you introduce our guest.
[00:00:54] Speaker B: Well, I appreciate it. Yes, I am traveling. It is 0530 here in beautiful Auburn, Alabama. It's early and nope. But we're very thankful. We have Jake Kuhl, a long term friend of mine and yours who's joining us all the way from Germany. So, Jake, thank you so much for being on. I'll let you introduce yourself and go from there.
[00:01:17] Speaker C: No, thank you so much. Jason and Colby, I greatly appreciate you having me on and extreme honor to be on your platform. I think what you're doing to and encourage us men to be better husbands, better fathers and kind of just strengthen our walk in the Lord. I think it's just fantastic. So I greatly appreciate you having me on today.
[00:01:36] Speaker B: Have you, Jake, being here, we are constantly surprised to hear that people listen to the show. We really are, we are, you know, but we do very. Thank, we're very thankful. I'm very thankful, your friendship. But and also, you know, you got a copy of the, the devotional. I appreciated your inputs into that.
So thank you. Kobe, over to you. What do you, what you got?
[00:02:02] Speaker A: Yeah. So, you know, for the audience, we're going to talk about the importance of resiliency. Right. I think it's something universal we've all gone through in our lives. We've all had, you know, moments and times where, you know, we've been stretched. We've been pulled in ways, especially for all of us in the military. We know that's probably one of the, the core things that gets poured into us. And I know a lot of our audience out there, all three of us that you're listening to, I know Jake also has served in the military, so it's one of those that is universal. But the Bible, as you would expect, has a lot to say about that topic. So, you know, I think one of the biggest things, you know, to kind of kick off the, the conversation that I think about when I Think about resiliency is, you know, it was a, it was those times when I was downrange with, with my units, right. And you had something go wrong. You had, you know, guys get homesick whatever the case may be. And you're trying to from instill your faith but you're also trying to take your leadership and help guide people through the tough times. And really at the most basic level that's really what we find ourselves, you know, talking about, you know, in John 16 and 33, kind of our foundational kind of scripture for this topic. In this world you will have trouble, but take heart. I Jesus has come to overcome the world. So you know, it's hard to see it in the midst of the storm, but Jesus has already kind of told us it's not gonna go this road, this narrow path asking you to walk is going to be rough. But there's also the hope that I will never leave you, I will never forsake you. Another scripture, right. That brings that in there. But you know guys, kind of what you think about resiliency and how it matters to Christians, what are you guys thoughts on that?
[00:03:42] Speaker B: Well, you know, I think it is, you know, you, you set at enmity with the world when you became a Christian. And so you're, you're, you're absolutely going to get knocked down. And you know, what does the Bible say about being persistent with him and not being that seed that when cast upon that you know, the stones or in the area where the thorns grow up as well is mentioned in Mark. So not being that and being just stifled out. Jake, you, you had quite a bit on resiliency and actually submitted quite a bit of information, wrote several, I wrote a couple of paper, wrote a paper here and I really do appreciate it. Your thoughts were phenomenal.
[00:04:28] Speaker C: So please sir, now thank you very much for letting me share just for the audience. About five years ago, while I was deployed to Afghanistan, I received a phone call at 2am basically notifying me that my healthy 16 year old son unexpectedly passed away. We'd later learned that he had an undiagnosed heart condition. But, but through that journey and in the midst of that tragedy, a lot of things that kind of learn, learn the hard way. But anchoring in, in scripture 3, three key points really hit home. The first is that God is sovereign, he doesn't make mistakes and we are not designed to understand his ways. If you look through the book of job in job 38, 4 finally God speaks to Job and he asks, where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth. For me, that was, that was a pivotal moment of accepting God's sovereignty and his will in my life, whether it be good or bad. The second point is God is the only sustaining source of strength, hope and comfort. Everything else on this earth is sustained, unsustaining, and it fades. When you look in the book of Psalms. There are so many psalms uplifting in times of trouble with David. But God is our refuge and our strength. He is close to the brokenhearted. And I can say from a recovery standpoint, Christian counseling advice we received was our anchor counseling not anchored in the Word. It was hollow and it provided no comfort and advice that we needed. And then the last thing is God has prepared the way for each and every one of us. Therefore we must trust in him and have faith. When you look in the book of Hebrews, chapter 12, 1, 2, we need to run our own race of perseverance, the race that he has marked out for us.
[00:06:13] Speaker B: No, I remember that day that, you know, as you, as you flew through Germany and you and I met up, you know that that's a, that's a challenge. Like you said earlier when we were talking, you don't, you don't wish that on anybody, right? And to have watched you throughout this journey as you've grown closer to Christ, that's absolutely one of the most courageous people that I know. I'll say that in all honesty, right. I know you give all that glory.
[00:06:41] Speaker C: To God, but yeah, I know, Jason, coming from you that, that's the highest compliment I can have. But again, it's, it's, it's the strength from, from God of me and kind of just, just for the audience after receiving word, I wouldn't wish this situation on my worst enemy because immediately very powerful emotions from the past. My regrets as a father in the present, I found myself trying to make decisions I would have never imagined whether I, we. We cremate our child, do we bury him? Fighting with the, the insurance company to pay for the one way trip to the hospital and then, and then a future loss. Jake was a very bright child, straight A student, gifted duke tip. He literally in the palm of his hands A month after he passed. We got his, he was in 10th grade and we got his AP scores. He had three APs, two fives and a four. So he much smarter than me and had a very bright future. But all of those powerful emotions at once was extremely crushing and a recovery that you cannot get through alone. But what I will say is it was in those times that I most clearly felt God's love and comfort through so many people. And, Jason, I know you were. You were as Jesus, hands and feet. Where you were at that time on my trip back to provide me that brevis and comfort and just that example alone. You can find God in the midst of the most tragic things.
[00:08:10] Speaker B: No, appreciate that, you know, So I remember when we were talking, coming through, and I'd gotten word, nothing was open. It was time, Covid. They weren't really allowing people into the airport terminal where you were. Me and a young airman had a.
A unique conversation. I'm sure he will remember for quite some time and. But it was, you know, absolutely help. But we all do. We, you know, we are those hands and feet for Christ wherever we go. Colby and I, that's kind of where we kind of started. We just settled on iron, sharpening iron, because we're kind of dense sometimes and. But that's what we're here to help out with. You hit a nail on the head about Christian counseling. You know, people will go through marriage counseling, people will go through grief counseling. If it's not grounded in the word of God, then I don't know how that circles back to a better future. I really don't.
Yeah, that's pretty interesting that you said that.
[00:09:14] Speaker A: I thank you, Jake, 1, for being open and transparent, you know, with this. But it really kind of centers me to listening to, you know, your. Your story, to those having those biblical foundations. Right. And I think that's something that I pulled out of what you were saying. You had a foundation. And this is why we, you know, we explain to the audience all the time and those guys and gals and everyone out there listening, one of the most important decisions you can ever make in life, because we don't know what tomorrow holds, but we know who holds tomorrow. And having that foundation root you into something. And, you know, you brought up a story that we've talked about in the past. You know, as far as having that foundation, which was Job, you know, a righteous man that found himself in the midst of absolute, definitive tragedy. Right. And I think about through all of it, and I heard it in your voice, was that rooting and that foundation in that resiliency. Right. Resiliency, as I would define it from a Christian context. Right. Isn't just about bouncing back, but it's about standing firm in our faith and trusting God, even when everything seems hopeless. And I saw that also in Joe's story where he talks about Job 23:10. He says, but he knows the way that I take when he tested me and I will come forth as gold, you know, so I can see, I can hear it. And that's a good example for, for all of us out there. You know, the essence of your story is you've been refined and that relationship and that foundation of standing on Christ's shoulders, it makes all the difference.
[00:10:42] Speaker C: Absolutely. Copley And I think going back to resiliency, it's one of those things that cannot be built in the midst of a crisis. And I think the best visualization is you look at a strong tree with a vast and strong root system. And in my mind as I reflect back, that is the true meaning of resiliency. The friends you have, how you process the world, the social, the spiritual, all of those key factors intertwined together is kind of like that 550 chord where the, the sum is, is greater than, than all of its parts. And I think the critic, the, the criticality of continuing to refine your resiliency habits and build upon each, each so that we can weather the storm. We, and we have that strong foundation because when, when tragedy hit, if, if we didn't have a, a strong family and friend structure, we wouldn't have had those people in our lives that can provide that immediate comfort. Having a biblical foundation, we're to anchor into God's word because there were many nights to be frank, I, I wished for death. I, I didn't want to be alive anymore. I lost hope. And without anchoring in that higher hope, that higher perspective to get you through the next minute, the next hour, the next day, I, I, I don't know how people get, get through it.
[00:12:05] Speaker A: Yeah, that, that's powerful man. And you know, yeah, it's, it's critical. Again, the most important decision that I think that any person will ever face that I have to make. And you hear this time and time again and you see folks that can go through something that I, I can't even wrap my mind around. Jake, what you and your family experience. But when I see you, I see the power and that reflection of who he is in you. And my heart aches and breaks for people that don't come to that conclusion. That life is a team sport and the ultimate person you want on your team, you have to have is Jesus Christ.
[00:12:43] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's, that's absolutely. So you know, when people go through grief share, I know that, you know, my mother in law passed a year or so ago and so there was, there was that grief share process and there was, there are people that go through this. You know, just. And on the flip side of that coin, there were people who did not anchor their faith in Jesus Christ, and there are those who do. And, you know, it's. My heart breaks for those people. I think about David, you know, in the Bible, and that's. That is a huge, huge comfort. And I've used that multiple times when, you know, the child between him and Bathsheba, God says, I'm gonna take that child. And it says, david cried and cried and cried all the way up until the very moment. And then he gets up and washes himself off. And they, of course, all of his servants thought he had lost his mind. And he says, no, where that child is, that child can't come to me, but where that child is, I'm gonna go be with him that day. And, you know, that's. That's such an anchoring moment for when you talk about resiliency and. And so forth.
[00:13:55] Speaker A: So, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, to lift and shift fires a little bit. Like, I think about. You know, we get challenged in many different ways in our life, especially as men. And I think of one that just recently kind of happened, you know, personally, and I'll get to that. But then also from a biblical perseverance, Joseph, where he faced betrayal. And I think that's another thing for guys that we can try to compartmentalize and things happen. But, you know, Romans 8:28 tells us, and. And we know that all things work together for the good to them that love God. You know, so in all seasons of our life, we find ourselves in. In Joseph, he had to find that strength and that resiliency which no doubt was poured into him as a child in his family, by. By his father.
Time and time again, your brothers sell you into slavery. You. You get into a situation where, yes, I'm a slave, but I'm in the best possible situation in Potiphar's house. And then you're getting accused of a heinous crime. You go to prison unfairly. Time and time again, he had to find some kind of strength, and that is just really trusting in the Lord. He had that foundation that allowed him to be, you know, have some resilience. And then ultimately, the ultimate example of resilience is Jesus Christ himself, who faced the cross for all of us. In Hebrews 12 and 2 and 3 tells us, for the joy set before him, he endured the cross. And so from that example, we can see all the suffering that he took, all the sins that duly rest on our shoulders for all of our lives. He took it. And he demonstrates how we can go through and have, really have faith and trust in him.
[00:15:36] Speaker B: No, let's. You hit it. I was kind of thinking as we were talking, you know, about Joseph and, you know, guys get hit with. It's like. It's like being on the ocean beach, right? Like, you know, the waves are coming in. And a lot of times it seems that way. And I thought about, you know, Hosea, some of the prophets, right? Like, Hosea had to be resilient. He married a prostitute. That's just the churched up word for her.
But he did. And God kept telling him to go back after, go back after, because his purpose. Purpose, right. It was. It was his purpose. And, and you know, and I'm sure Hosea is like, man, I don't understand this. I'd like for that woman to leave. As a matter of fact, I think I'm gonna move now that she's gone.
But he did, you know, you're absolutely right. God's ways are above ours.
[00:16:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:27] Speaker B: And anchoring into that. Jake, you talked a lot about helping others, you know, and how that was a key thing. And, you know, the, the Bible speaks about that, you know, so you had some really good points on it, and I thought they were really good. I won't steal them from you.
[00:16:43] Speaker C: No, by all means. Thank you for sharing it. What really caused me to reflect is, I think before the event happened, in my mind, I thought if you. If. If someone's going through a hard time, they reach out, they find a counselor, they're good, Right. That. That'll solve the problem.
Fortunately, God led us in our journey of healing that really, there were really, I think I see four kind of main components that were complementary in our healing. The first talked about resiliency and having that strong, encouraging network of friends and family to be there to support you. The problem when, when Jake passed was no one among our friends and family lost a child. So while they wanted to be there for us, they couldn't support us the way. The way we needed it.
The second piece is, is getting linked up with the right counselor. Before the event, I thought a counselor was a counselor. But in my experience, it needs to be the right fit as far as the mutual trust back and forth. The first counselor we got linked up with, she wasn't married, she didn't have kids, she didn't have a loss, and she didn't share her same FAI values, just was not a good fit. Fortunately, God led us to a great Christian counselor. She actually Lost two husbands. So not only did she have the technical knowledge, but she, she walked our journey in grief herself, and she was able to get that. However, even having the right counselor, there's still that doctor patient relationship. And Jason, you know me well. The last thing I want to do is sit in a circle of strangers and share the most vulnerable things about me. But fortunately, God gave me the strength and led me to a grief share. And the, the facilitators, they. They lost their son 20 years prior. So while they weren't a counselor, they didn't have the technical expertise. They literally walked in our shoes before, and they gave us a lot of pragmatic strategies, lessons learned, things that worked for them, things that did not.
But what that also did was that forced a bond in a relationship that we couldn't have with our counselor and that we couldn't have with our family and friends. And it gave us hope that, hey, they made it, so let's, let's do what they did. And then finally the fourth component and you brought it up, is the helping others. It's almost like God designed us to love others. And this was something I learned in grief share at the very end was, hey, you made it through the 13 week cycle. Now it's your turn to go and kind of live the Second Corinthians. God provided you comfort, so now it's your turn to provide. Provide comfort.
What I found through that process of kind of taking an aggressive stance of finding a handful of ministries, volunteering at the church with the youth group Metropolitan Ministries, handing out food, working at the Salvation army on, on the weekends, I found a healing that I literally haven't found anywhere else. While we thought we were there to help others, the. The healing that we received was just indescribable.
And I'll just share one very compelling story. When we lived in downtown Tampa, we kind of got into just kind of walking around and like handing out socks and food to some of the homeless people that kind of camp out on the streets. And at one corner, this gentleman named Jack, that was his corner, he was always there. Well, once we got to learn his story, he. He lost his wife and his child in a car wreck and he, he tailspun, he tried robbing a bank to get money. And then things just went out of control.
But just the, the loving embrace that I received from Jack, us just trying, you know, pouring our tears out in the healing that I received and the advice I received from Jack was just indescribable and can only be explained coming From. From God.
[00:20:45] Speaker B: You know, that. That is absolutely amazing. Colby and I were talking yesterday about how seems like sometimes we've lost our sympathy, especially in today's society, you know, through some of the social media things, we seem to applaud, you know, we've distanced ourselves from people. And it's very amazing how God.
God brings together, because you're right, it's the hands and feet.
It really is when God shows up in all sorts of places, through all sorts of people, right? Jesus puts that person in that spot specifically for that message. And, you know, that is amazing. And, you know, we don't know where we would be without Jesus Christ. I know I wouldn't be right here. I know I wouldn't have the outlook that I have if it wasn't for him. You know, I think about, you know, when. When Jesus told his disciples, he tells Peter, and we've. We've laughed and chuckled. The more I've gotten to know, read the Bible and listen and read about Peter. I think Peter had a really good sense of humor, and he's. I. I relate to him quite a bit. A lot more gas, not a lot of brakes, which describes about 90 of my life growing up, you know, and he's like, Jesus says, hey, I got to go to the cross. And Peter's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
The King James is far be it, you know, but in reality, he's like, whoa, have you lost your mind? It's the cross. And he says, you know, tells him to get behind him and says, like, no, no, no, I've got to get there to get to the resurrection, right? And he. He was. It says that he turned his face towards Jerusalem. And I've heard the. The you living translation, all that, but it was like he was set, like, face in stone. Like, I'm going. This is where I'm going. He was very resilient for everything else to get there and endure it. Because beyond that comes that resurrection moment. Right? And. Yeah, no, I greatly appreciate you being on and sharing your story and your wisdom from that now.
[00:22:56] Speaker C: Thank you so much. It's truly an honor.
[00:23:00] Speaker A: No, absolutely. Thank you, Jake. You know, as we kind of get to the last, you know, few minutes of our time together, I want to open it up to you. What, just writ general. Like, what are those pearls of wisdom, you know, kind of that practical. We always try to leave something practical for guys and folks to think about on how to build resiliency. Jake, what would you offer up for the audience?
[00:23:22] Speaker C: Yeah, I really think it's It's a daily, a daily activity. And it's, it's really when you look at your, your social network, really finding those, those what a Harvard professor, Arthur Brooks calls your real friends versus deal friends, invest in your real friendships, those relationships like this, we build each other up, encourage one one another, and divest in those transactional deal friend relationships. From an emotional perspective, I think kind of your know thyself, know how you look at the world, how you process emotions, your triggers, because during a crisis those emotions are heightened. Just knowing how you kind of resolve some of those things I think is really important. I know you know me very well. I, I like to wake up early, hit the gym hard, kick, kick some butt from America. And then about, about 8pm I'm in bed with milk and cookies.
I'm not designed like going out on a trip and going out to dinner afterwards. I'm just emotionally drained. So just being aware of your emotional tank and making sure that you're going to the right reservoirs, like the word to be recharged.
And then from a spiritual perspective, I think before the event, I saw God and my relationship more as a genie in the bottle. Like I wanted this, so I want to pray because I want this. But really having that true relations and leaning more on God's will and not. And not your own is so critical. But just like in the gym, it's a daily activity. If you don't do it, those bits and pieces will weaken, atrophy. But they really, as you work them together, it really truly served as they work to build each other up.
[00:25:13] Speaker A: No, that's awesome. And I think one other one that you really hit that I want to leave with the people that, that you said, Jake, was, you know, trusting God's sovereign. You know, even when things feel out of control, which I think a lot of people might have those feelings for a lot of different ways right now, you know, God still remains in control. That's what Romans 8:28 tells us. And then, you know, I love the other thing that you said that, you know, I took away was finding a purpose in pain, like where you were serving and had a heart to help others. And really it brought you a sense of healing and hope that you could find nowhere else. I think those are good things. And then I guess the last thing I would, I would say for turning to Jason if he had thoughts on practical ways is remember, God is with you. Isaiah 41 and 10 says, do not fear, for I am with you. So I love that. Yeah. Jason, do you have any kind of closing thoughts on that.
[00:25:59] Speaker B: It's hard to. It's hard to put a bow on all this as it is, as we've covered a lot of this. I do have. And I'll save this for the Jonathan's Leftover, a very comical story. I love the 550 chord. It, like, it rang true to me. I'll save that for the Jonathan's leftovers.
But I do believe, like you said, where you're anchored, right, like storms come where, where are you anchored? And that's. That's critical. So I, I do appreciate you being here and Colby, of course, you for putting this on and doing all the. The technical piece. You'll have to write the description today.
I'm out, so.
[00:26:37] Speaker A: I got you. I got you, I got you. Well, Jake, again, thank you so much for being on the show. That it concludes another great episode of the Jonathan Project podcast. And for all you folks out there listening, this episode and every episode comes out on Tuesday mornings, 6:00 on the east coast or wherever you may be, you can find it on Spotify, Apple, iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, you name it. You can probably find the Jonathan Project podcast. We have a devotional and it is the best kind of price. It is free, so please click the links, it's in all of our segments and get a free devotional which will help you become a better father. Man, it's only about a two minute investment, but, man, you're getting the eternal return. So, Jake, again, thank you for being on the show, having such a great heart to share with us, man. It was impactful and we love you. We're praying for you and your family. And yeah, Jason, thanks. And be safe wherever you're at today.
[00:27:35] Speaker B: All right, See you. Bye.
