[00:00:12] Speaker A: Hey, welcome everyone, to another episode of the Jonathan Project podcast where iron is sharpening iron and we help men navigate the complex world around them. And we take the inspiration between Jonathan and his good friend David as the inspiration for our show.
And if you are seeking prayer, you found inspiration, hope from some of our previous episodes and you would like to reach out to us, please contact us at the Jonathan project
[email protected]. again, the Jonathan Project podcast, gmail.com. we also have a free men's devotional that's something you can't find often nowadays. 28 days, 2 minutes a day helps you become a better father and a husband. You'll also find that in the episode links. We have a great episode for you folks. We're excited. We have a very honored special guest, Dr. Mark Hitchcock. Welcome to the Jonathan Project. We're so happy to have you.
[00:01:02] Speaker B: Great to be with you guys. Thank you.
[00:01:04] Speaker A: Yeah. So, folks, I'm going to go ahead and give a quick intro of Dr. Hitchcock. He is a phenomenal man. He is a senior pastor at Faith Bible Church in Edmond, Oklahoma. He is world renowned for end times prophecy, giving us insights into what the Bible has to say about the world around us in the final season, as the Bible describes it. So we're honored to have him on the show here today. Dr. Hitchcock, again, welcome, welcome, Jason, welcome to the show as always.
[00:01:31] Speaker C: Hey, appreciate it. Dr. Hitchcock, welcome. Thank you for being here. Understand also as I was kind of looking you up a little bit, you also enjoy lifting weights. Walking is a good thing, but. And I'm not big in golf, but I did notice you like lifting weights, so.
[00:01:46] Speaker B: I do, yes. It used to show more than it does now. You know, the older you get, it's a little harder to keep it, you know. But I still like doing it. Yeah, it's the weights have gotten a lot lighter and all that, but I still like it.
[00:01:57] Speaker C: Good, good. Well, tell us a little bit about yourself and.
[00:02:00] Speaker B: Yeah, I grew up in Oklahoma City. Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Great, great Christian family. Both my folks passed away last year, so I missed them a lot. But they led me to the Lord. I got saved. I was a month before I turned six years of age. I watched Billy Graham on television. Grew up in a great, great Bible church and grew up here in Oklahoma City. Then I went to high school here. I went to Oklahoma State University and then I went to law school. I was actually a lawyer for four years before I went to Dallas Seminary. I married my wife while I was still a lawyer. So I was tell everybod I did the bait and switch with my wife. She thought she was getting a lawyer and got a preacher. Anyway, we went down to Dallas Seminary down there and have two sons. One was born right when I started seminary, one near the end. Then I went and got my PhD at DTS and have had the privilege to teach down there. Been at Faith Bible Church in Edmond, Oklahoma for this October. Be 34 years and got two boys, Justin and Sam. They're 36 and 34, both married, and we have seven grandkids. Our one younger son's actually getting ready to adopt these two children in about a month. So that'll be. That'll bring us to the seven.
[00:03:06] Speaker C: That's awesome.
[00:03:07] Speaker B: But anyway, yeah, you know, I love. My wife and I, we love to walk together and all that. I just walk so I can eat. Basically. That's what I do. You get older, you know, you gain weight, you got to do something. So I just basically walking just so I can eat.
[00:03:19] Speaker C: I feel like it's a kindred spirit. I work out to eat. Yeah, that's the truth, Right.
Motivation.
[00:03:25] Speaker A: Good program right there.
[00:03:26] Speaker C: So I love the lawyer to prophecy, you know, I really do and is, you know, so in truth. And you kind of got to help us connect those dots, you know, because that's a, that's a big commitment. You're a lawyer, right? And I know when, when I finished my. When I was finishing my PhD, at one point, I almost quit. I was like, I think I've had all the information they have to offer. I think I'm just going to call it a quit. My wife gave me the famous knife hand and she was like, you'll sit down and you'll finish it. And I was like, I don't, I don't know if that's how that works, but I'm not going to challenge this. And then when I finished, I was like, I think I'd like to go back to school. And her advice was actually to swap to law. If I did that way I could represent myself at the divorce.
So help me connect the dots from, from lawyer to prophecy.
[00:04:14] Speaker B: Well, growing up, I knew the Lord as a, as a young boy, you know, like a lot of people for like 16 to 22. I didn't really live for the Lord. After my first semester of law school, I had a real dramatic turnaround of 180 in my life and, you know, went ahead and was a lawy for that period of time. But, you know, I committed myself to the Lord and I got a chance to teach Seventh grade boys and then high school group and then in college class. And then my wife and I got married. I was teaching, teaching our adult class. And it just became clear over time for myself and other people, you know, confirmed that that's what God wanted me to do all the time. It wasn't that I disliked what I was doing. It was just a positive call, strong call to leave. And so, you know, we sold every, sold our house, sold everything, moved down to Dallas to go to Dallas Theological Seminary. But I mean, you know, I've never doubted at one, one moment of my life ever that that's what God wanted me to do. So, you know, never turn back. And, you know, being at our church, our church has been a wonderful place to be, like every church, and there's difficulties and things, different times, but by and large, I mean, for the 34 years, it's been a tremendous place to be and just a great blessing. And, you know, I'm in a good time of life right now. I've been there all that time and get to, you know, do the teaching I do there at the church and do some writing and speaking other places. So, you know, it's a blessed season of life that I really appreciate from the Lord. You know, I appreciate the health I have as well.
[00:05:31] Speaker A: Yeah, that's awesome.
[00:05:33] Speaker C: Yeah, a lot of writing. 30 books, right?
[00:05:35] Speaker B: Yeah, 30 something. Yeah, I got a. I'm working on a few things right now always. But yeah, I really enjoy that. It's a good way to, you know, get books out there. I get letters from inmates and prisons all the time that are reading books, man. Once these books get in the prison system, they're there. I mean, it's, it's amazing. You want a book gets published, where it ends up. So it's been, been interesting over the years, all the, you know, all the correspondence I've received about where people have found my books and read them.
[00:06:00] Speaker A: Yes.
You know, what was one of your first encounters with the end times prophecy? Speaking of, I know you spent a lot of time as far as like, let's say, your theological focus, and you're well known. That's why we've had you on the show and you've done a lot of other conferences and shows on prophecy. You know, what was it that made you say, hey, this matters and people need to hear it? Because I think there's a lot of misnomers about, you know, Christian prophecy and people might have misconceptions, spooky kind of things about it. So what was it that hooked you and really helped you kind of put that message out there.
[00:06:29] Speaker B: Well, it started back when I was around 11 or 12, something like that. I remember the age exactly. But In May of 1970, a book came out called the Late Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsay. It was the number one selling book of the whole 1970s, other than the Bible. Sold 27 million copies.
[00:06:46] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:06:47] Speaker B: It's. You know, it was a book that really just kind of shook. Shook America in a lot of ways. And when I was a young boy, everybody was reading it in the youth group. My sister was in the youth group. I remember looking through the book and just was fascinated by it. And there was a guy named Russ Doubton. I actually got to meet him years later, made. Made these movies. One was called the Thief in the Night, and they showed it one Wednesday night at our church. It was about the Rapture, you know, people just suddenly disappearing from the Earth. And I remember, I don't know, again, I was around 11 or 12 years old. And I was just captivated by that. I mean, it was just. I'd never heard anything really like that. From then on, I was really interested in prophecy. You know, it was kind of dormant for a while in my life, obviously, but when my life turned around, in my early 20s, I met an elderly gentleman I studied the Bible with down in South Oklahoma City, and he liked prophecy. And I started reading some books. And what I realized is, you know, that you. I couldn't really understand the Bible if I didn't understand at least something about prophecy, about end times. Because when the Bible was written, about 28% of the Bible was prophetic at the time it was written. Now, a lot of those prophecies have been fulfilled, but there's still many that are unfulfilled. So I realized if I'm going to really understand the Bible, I've got to understand God's prophetic program. And so I studied books like Daniel, the book of Revelation, 1st and 2nd Thessalonians, the Jesus Sermon on the Mount of Olives there in Matthew 24 and 25, and just really immersed myself books like Ezekiel to really understand prophecy. Really my interest wasn't so much, hey, I want to become a prophecy expert. I just wanted to understand the Bible. And prophecy was really an avenue to understand the Bible better.
[00:08:20] Speaker A: No, that's. That's great because I think as my father, who's a. As a chaplain and listening to this in. In Ector County, Texas, you know what, he kind of turned us on as growing up is having a heart to understand all the Bible and understanding that prophecy is really geared to have us have a heart for the present and gives us that hope for that future, that, hey, things are going to work out. And when you can have that kind of hope sometimes, especially as men, you know, when you think everything is going wrong, but you find that hope that, hey, we're on the winning, things are going to go right, and that really, it's not about how it all breaks out and all these details. I know a lot of people get hung up on, but it's really saying that relationship with Jesus Christ today is what matters. And I think that's a, you know, that's a powerful, you know, kind of story to put out there when it.
[00:09:07] Speaker B: Comes to prophecy, though, too. Have to remember, though, I'm sorry, that, that, you know, there's a lot of. You mentioned all the details, but, you know, there's a few basic things people believe, didn't have to believe. If you believe the Bible, Jesus is coming back.
There's going to be a literal resurrection of the dead, there's going to be a final judgment, and there's a literal heaven and hell. Now, we, we disagree a lot of prophecy people do about a lot of the details around all that stuff, but those are kind of the fundamentals or the pillars, you know, of an eschatology review, the end times. It's kind of orthodox. So. Sorry about that, Jason. I've stepped over you there.
[00:09:39] Speaker C: No, it's absolutely fine. I was sitting there, as I really do, like how, you know, you know, Colby, you said that it's, it's to give us a better understanding of the present. And like you said, sir, it's really, it's to help you understand the Bible. A lot of Christians may look at it like, why does it matter if I understand prophecy? Because if I'm gone when the Rapture occurs, it'd be kind of like teaching people who pay their taxes on time, you know, teaching them about tax evasion. Right. Like, it just, it doesn't apply. But I like how both of you kind of presented that.
[00:10:14] Speaker B: Yeah, no, there's a great thought. You know, before God came and destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, he came and talked to Abraham. And Abraham, you know, said God, you know, if there's 50 righteous, there's 40, verse 10 righteous. Well, Abraham wasn't going to be there in Sodom and Gomorrah, but God came and told him what he was going to do there in Sodom and Gomorrah. And I always look at that as you know, we're God. Abraham's called the friend of God and we're God's friends. And God wants us to know what he's going to do. And he takes us into his confidence and he shared with us what's coming so that we can live in light of it now and to give us a sense of urgency and to pray for people, want to see people come to know the Lord even though we're not going to be here during that time. I believe a lot of these things that are happening in the future, God wants us to know about it and live today in light of it.
[00:10:58] Speaker C: I think that's absolutely a good point. You know, it's a sense of urgency. I was kind of thinking about, you know, when I've been in aircraft and it's time to get out of those aircraft when they're in flight. Absolutely. As the countdown goes, I make sure all my stuff sets. Like I double check it, you know, although I've already checked it, I'll check it again. But it does provide that sense of urgency to make sure it's right, it's right for your buddy and things like that. Do you also think that maybe understanding prophecy gives you a sense of calmness? Maybe it helps with anxiety? We talked a lot about, you know, we see a lot of ramp up of anxiety in this world.
[00:11:32] Speaker B: Well, yeah, Jesus, you know, John 14, he said, don't let your heart be troubled, you know, which means stirred up. That word does there. Don't let your heart be troubled. You believe in God, Believe in me. In my Father's house are many dwelling places. If it weren't so, I would have told you, I go to prepare a place for you. If I go and prepare a place for you, I'll come again and receive you to myself. That where I am, there you may be also. Jesus used prophecy and said, look, I'm going away, but don't, don't let this world stir you up too much because I'm going to come back someday and receive you to myself. And obviously, you know, people may die before the Lord comes. You know, everybody in history's died before the coming of the Lord, but that's still the hope that when he comes, we're going to, our bodies will be resurrected and reunited with our spirit. And so, you know, that's the hope that we have. And yeah, in a world that looks like it's gone crazy and it looks like a bus, you know, going down the mountain with nobody at the wheel. When you, when you study prophecy and you can look at our world today and say, you know, our world today is really set up just like the Bible said it would be before Jesus come look at that and say, all of these things can't be. You know, the globalism that we see and Israel being in the center of the world's attention and the clamoring for peace over there, and all these different things we see happening, all those things couldn't be happening by accident. So to me, when you look at that and you see the, gosh, the Bible predicted these things in some cases thousands of years ago. Gives you confidence that the Bible's true, that God's on his throne. You know, God knows what's. What's coming. And so, no, it does give a sense of real peace because. And there's a lot to be anxious about in our world today.
[00:13:00] Speaker A: You know, that's. That's. That's a good point, you know, Dr. Hitchcock that you bring up. And it kind of ties back to, you know, this. This question and thought that I've had. You know, we talk about a lot here on our show of how to equip men to kind of step out into the boldness that God has, as, you know, and I can speak to American culture the best, because as all three of us, we all have lived it, served it in some kind of way, shape or form. And there's a lot of pressure on men now not to be vocal, not to lead in the capacity that God has. And when we think about prophecy, it's a very divisive thing, as you said, for a lot of different reasons, for a lot of different folks, even in the church. But how do you think that neglect.
And that's the best way I can put it, of men not fully diving into what the Bible is, and that is an understanding of prophecy, has left us kind of unprepared for spiritual leadership in this day and age where we really need that.
[00:13:50] Speaker B: Well, you know, the Bible tells us to be looking for that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior. We're to be looking for it. Jesus said in first, or Paul says in first Thessalonians 1, we're to be waiting up, you know, for his son from heaven. It means, like, waiting up at night for your wife to get home or your kids to get home. So if we're not doing that, we're not really obeying the Lord. And I think one of the ways. I think one of the ways that it's hurt men dramatically is they don't have a sense that Christ could come back at any time and they're going to be accountable and there's going to be rewards and lack of rewards given guys that are, you know, looking at pornography or not treating their wife like they should, or not spending time with their children. And there's not, again, this sense that, you know, Christ can come back at any moment. And I think people that don't live with that at least somewhat in their life or some thought of that, it's very easy for your life to lose a sense of accountability that, you know, you're just kind of living your life and you're kind of going along, you know, Christ can come at any moment, you're going to get cut short. So I think it's. I think it's really hurt people in that sense of just. There's a lot of things, you know, that you might think about you're going to do. And you think, well, you know, what if the Lord were to come back or maybe something you're not doing that you should do. And so when, when you have that sense in our lives of the imminent return of Jesus, he can come back at any moment. I think it'll. It'll change the way that we live our lives. And it's. It's a reality to us that Jesus really is coming back at some point in time. So I think a lot of men don't think about that, and I think that they're a lot worse off because always in the New Testament, every time prophecy is mentioned, the coming of the Lord's mentioned, there's always practical application with it. I quoted John 14, don't let your heart be trouble. In first Thessalonians 4, at the very end of talking about the Rapture, he says, comfort one another with these words. You know, when someone dies that you love, it's a comfort. Jesus is coming back.
In First John, chapter three, he says, everyone who fixes his hope on him purifies himself as he is pure. In other words, it has a purifying influence on us. And just one more I'll mention. First Corinthians 15:58, after talking about the Rapture, he says, therefore, steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing your labor is not in vain in the Lord. In other words, he's coming back, so get busy and use your gifts and serve him, because it's not going to be in vain. He's going to come back. So it always has this motivation in our lives. And I think a lot of people who don't study prophecy, don't know about it, don't think about it. I think that they don't have that motivation and that passion in their life that I think it provides.
[00:16:17] Speaker C: I think you, you said something that's really important. You know, if you, if you do study the prophecy and you do realize that Jesus is coming back at any moment, right. I think one of Satan's greatest diversions is we're so busy now, right? I love the, the writing, the paradox of progress. All these things supposed to create time saving and we don't have any spare time. But it's almost like knowing where your north star is or where you're what's coming, what you're for compass. And if you don't understand prophecy and that Jesus is coming back, then you always think, well, there's tomorrow to get it right. And in reality it may not happen. It could happen right now. That's why I drive my truck slow in case I'm raptured. I don't want it to hurt anybody.
[00:16:58] Speaker B: Well, you know, no one knows how much time. I always like to say no one, none of us know how much time we have personally or prophetically. You know, personally, obviously something can happen to any of us anytime. And prophetically, we don't know how much time we have either. And so I think to live with that idea. I think most people though are very, very earth centered. They think about here and now and you know, I think a lot of people think, well, prophecy is just kind of, you know, pie in the sky, kind of sweet by and by kind of stuff. You know, it doesn't really relate to everyday life. But again, every time it's mentioned, it's tethered to how you're living your life, you know, now in the nitty gritty of life.
[00:17:32] Speaker C: Well, you know, I think it's pretty interesting when you go, the end of time, people go, I don't really buy into it or whatever. Right. And from a, from a standing. If something has an ending, it had to have had a beginning. And you know, a lot of physicists right now go, no, we absolutely agree there was a point at which time began. And that secular physicist as well as those that are biblically aligned. Right. I think that's something that's super important. This will come to an end. Not just personally, but all of it will come to an end at some point.
[00:18:03] Speaker A: No, but I want to tie in another good point and then weave in something for you. Dr. Hitchhike in the End Time Survival Guide. Your latest book there you introduce what you call the 46 defense. You know, it was grounded in Philippians 4. 6 through 7.
How does that model help, you know, believers, men, women out there trying to understand what can feel like a very dense, complex subject. But that practicality of. With chaos, the calmness that Jesus really wants us to have, that understanding that you described, you know, not have fear the future, but have faith.
[00:18:36] Speaker B: Well, yeah, Philippians 4. Six, you know, don't worry about anything.
Don't worry. But everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, your requests being made known to God and the peace of God that passes all understanding will guard. That's actually a military word. It means to build a fortress around. It's like put a guard around your heart and mind in Christ Jesus. And that's a great defense that we need. There's an old. That old. I mentioned this old guy I used to study the Bible with in South Oklahoma City. He was an old guy. He's kind of a corny old guy, but he loved the Bible, loved the Lord. But, you know, he said this saying one time, and sometimes these dumb little sayings stick with you. But he used to say, when in a fix, go to Philippians 4. 6. And, you know, it's just kind of a dumb little statement. I remember when I heard it, I was in my early 20s, you know, but I mean, I've thought about that I don't know how many times since then.
That's a great place to go that we go to the Lord in prayer, and God's peace can come and fill our heart and mind. And, you know, we all need to be doing that constantly, need to be going to the Lord in prayer, because we all have things that makes it make us anxious, and we take those to the Lord and Lord can come and calm us and give us that garrison. I mean, build a fortress around our heart and mind in Christ Jesus. We need that all the time. And we need to. We need to share that with our families. A lot of our wives need that. You know, they need to help share that with a lot of, you know, a lot of them worry about a lot of different things. And we. It's not good for them to be worried. We need to try to help them and encouraging them in that as well, but also be an example, because if we're worried and fretting and anxious about everything, you're trying to tell your kids not to worry or your wife not to worry, you know, it's going to fall on deaf ears. We have to set the example for that in our family.
[00:20:07] Speaker A: No, I love that. And that's. That's a great point that we've, you know, hit a lot here on the Jonathan Project is being that example, you know, standing up like what is what God has called us to be and to just be men and to give a great example, people. But I want to pull on a thread that we're kind of hitting on right here, is that I feel like with prophecy, right, it's really quick and easy to fall into this trap. And I know you've probably seen it, Dr. Hitchcock, for sure, that people can get kind of weird. They get focused on, well, you know, this person is the Antichrist, and then this sign's gonna happen and. And they're doing this prophetic connecting dots and, you know, in places. But really what you said, I really hope that everyone takes this away, is. It's really a tool. It's a discipleship tool. It's really something to ground you in practicality and understanding your Bible more than just intellectual curiosity. So how. How can people do that? How can men, women out there listening to us really understand that this is about, you know, discipling, helping others around them and not just this weird curiosity of this kind of thing of the Bible?
[00:21:05] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, being a prophecy guy myself, you know, I get a lot of weird stuff sent to me. You know, people that, you know, they know who the Antichrist is. You know, they've counted the, you know, hairs in the Antichrist beard or whatever, and they know what country he's coming from or, you know, even people that, you know, they. They know the day is coming back. You know, even though Jesus didn't know when he was on Earth, I think he knows now, but he said he didn't even know in his incarnation. So that's a pretty bold statement to make. They know something Jesus didn't know. You know, I always say when somebody sets a date for Jesus coming, you know, that's not the day, you know, when he's coming back. And. And I don't think we'll see the Antichrist. He's going to rise, you know, after. After the rapture takes place, is my view. So, you know, there's. Yeah, there's all kinds of views out, all kinds of things that people get caught up in. But I think, you know, to just focus on the main things about prophecy, that Jesus is coming back. There are signs of the times, things that are happening. In Matthew 24, Jesus disciples asked him, you know, when are these things going to be? What's going to be your sign of the coming and the end of the age. He didn't say. Well, don't worry about it. He gave them a bunch of signs. So there are things that we can look at in our world, but I think that what we need to do, you know, as men and leading our families, I think it's a good thing to teach your kids about prophecy. Look, you know, just.
