Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Hey, welcome, everyone, to another episode of the Jonathan Project podcast where iron is sharpening iron and we're helping men navigate the complexities of this world around us. And we take the example of Jonathan and his good friend and future King David as the inspiration for our show. So if you want Jason and me to come out to a men's event, a church function, your business, and you found some inspiration from listening to the show, please reach out to us at the Jonathan Project podcast gmail.com Again, the Jonathan Project podcast mail.com Jason, good morning. Welcome to the show.
[00:00:54] Speaker B: Good morning. How are you doing? How you doing?
[00:00:58] Speaker A: You know, I'm doing okay. The weather has finally went back and it left here in Florida and so it's back to Florida winter, about 70 degrees and oh yeah, birds are chirping and skies are blue.
[00:01:12] Speaker B: Well, it's, it's supposed to get up to 60 today, so that's pretty good here. We'll see how that goes.
But yeah, man, how's, how's the week been?
[00:01:22] Speaker A: It's been steady. Like I said. This has been my, my pause week before I head back into the, to the work fight, so to speak, on Monday morning. So, yeah, it's been good. Yeah, I'm almost through. I have written like a madman. I was up against the wall as far as my editor is concerned. Shout out to Kelly. She's out there listening. I had about two weeks to the day because today is February 1st, to get it to, to her. And so I'm, I'm happy to say that 99 there now where about a month ago I was about 30%.
[00:02:00] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I remember it was. I'm glad you're going forward. Well, look, I also want to give a shout out to the Brendan. He, he's the guy that gave us the topic last week. He also posted a video on Facebook and I'm going to commend him for it. He basically the video on Facebook said, hey, Jesus loves you and God loves you. Jesus loves you. And if you want to talk to me, talk to me, give me a call.
It was that simple and I was super proud of him. Took a step of faith. He's a young man, he's in his 20s, brand new father, and so very impressive, you know what I mean? Like, he's, he's putting it out there. So hats off to him and really do appreciate that.
[00:02:41] Speaker A: No, that's awesome, though. Shout out to Brendan. So what we have an interesting kind of conversation that we're going to have here, folks. We're going to talk about strong men of faith are needed when times get tough. And, you know, if you haven't noticed, ladies and gentlemen, things are. Things are a little rough here in America. Just writ large. You know, prices of things are up. You know, there's a lot going on nowadays. And I would say we're in hard times. Right.
And, you know, as we look at these struggles that families are facing, you know, I would even go and be bold enough to say it's not just an American struggle, it's a global one. But in times like these, no, strong men of faith are not optional. You know, we've all heard the. The quote where, you know, hard times make strong men and strong men make weak times, and weak times make weak, you know, weaker men.
[00:03:35] Speaker B: You're so close.
[00:03:36] Speaker A: I was so close on that.
You get what I'm saying? And so we're going to talk about, you know, why you need to be a strong man of faith and these times that are a little bit rough and a little bit challenging and how that faith really has an impact, as a man on the society and your families and everything else around us.
[00:04:00] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, you and I have talked this week, right. Like, and things have shifted for us all, for everybody. Right. Like, certain things have come out. I swapped government agencies, and you and I have talked quite a bit about that.
[00:04:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:16] Speaker B: And. And so forth. But here's for. For listeners out there. This is part of the conversation that Colby and I talked about and encouraging one another and discussing. And this is something that. That in my studies and my thoughts are this, you know, when Joseph was. When he was born, obviously, to Jacob, and he was the second youngest. Second youngest. Right. And he. He really. Or maybe was the youngest. I can't. Can't remember. I know Benjamin was right after that, or right. Right around that time. But. So, anyway, long story short, his brothers were going to kill him, and Reuben says, ah, let's just put him in his pit. Well, then they. When Reuben comes leaves, everybody leaves, and his brothers sell him into slavery. And next thing you know, Reuben comes back and can't rescue him. Well, Joseph, later, we kind of see, hey, he goes through this. He sold the Potiphar. Then he goes to jail and he comes back and he is the third or second or third in charge in Egypt.
But when his brothers show up, it says, hey, you meant this for evil, but God meant it for good. Yeah, look, we kind of get to skip. And it's interesting, you know, in TV shows and stuff, you're like, oh, the scene cuts and it's not that awkward what happens right after that comment or right after that moment. But life goes on. And in Joseph's life, life went on after he was thrown in the pit, sold into slavery. There's a time, there's a time period of going through, but in those hard times came.
And there you go. Hard. He needed to step up, and he does in his life. Right. Like, he didn't hold on to the bitterness.
[00:05:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:57] Speaker B: He. He became and he is recorded as quite a man of faith.
[00:06:02] Speaker A: Yeah. And I mean, that's. That's a good example of pointing out why this episode. Right. Why do we want to talk about when those hard times hit, you know, what you're going to face as a man and how you need to respond. And really, if you don't have that armor that your faith brings, then you're kind of left exposed and you can find yourself kind of falling away. You know, masculinity, being a man, especially in, you know, American society, which is what both of us are, you know, intimately familiar with, it's kind of been challenged over the last four or five plus years or more.
[00:06:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:40] Speaker A: And I think what it leads to is a lot of men kind of are searching out there for community.
You know, I'll give an example. There's a gentleman that, you know, I'm going to meet up with here probably in the next couple of weeks. But he has found himself overnight being a single dad. He has found himself overnight trying to put the pieces together of his family. And the main thing that he said, he's like, you know, I really just need some community. I really wish I had some guys to kind of I could talk to.
And I think what I found. I know we're going to address this a little bit later in the episode is one of the big reasons why men are kind of moved away from Christianity here in America is this principle called discipleship. And it's not this unmasculine thing to build community with men and row together in the same kind of fashion. Jesus modeled this impeccably where he picked 12 random men that I don't think anyone in modern society would have picked to be his disciples. And he mentored them, he took them from being weak men and he disciples them into being strong men of faith. And those strong men of faith then moved on through hard times to build other strong men of faith. And you see that cycle continue to flee. So discipleship is a key part of being a strong man and retaining your faith and helping future generations have that.
[00:08:05] Speaker B: You Know, a lot of people think that when you become a Christian, life ought to work out, you know, well, and it does in the end. But let's be candid. It does in the end. There's a lot of ground between here and there. Just like with Joseph, there was a lot of ground between being sold into slavery and then being the third in charge. You know, you and I were kind of talking. I was driving in the other day, and Charles Stanley had a sermon on about, you know, the. The house. The two houses built on the foundations. And. And what's important for men to realize is that when you begin this discipleship is both those houses. The rains came and the floods rose on both houses. The one built on the rock and the one built on the sand. But only one of those survived. As a. As you get ready to disciple people. That's it. As you get ready to take on that leadership role, you have to have that forethought and that commitment that at the end of this, always keep that strategic goal in mind of where we're going.
[00:09:10] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. You know, and I think, Jason, without a doubt, the. As we talked about last week's episode of Influences, when you look at what, you know, traditional masculinity, biblical kingdom, man kind of masculinity centers on being a provider, protector, and then the spiritual leader. All three of those elements have been challenged in multiple ways as our culture has shifted to this thing where everything goes, everything feels good, and the toxic male is the one who tries to stand up and to create that societal wall, that protector, you know, provider has changed dramatically. You know, you have people doing all kinds of perverse things to provide for themselves, and everyone's supposed to agree with that. Men are supposed to agree with that. Families are supposed to be structured around such kind of activities. And what you end up with is, you know, a hyper, individualistic kind of focus as a society, when men have been relegated to being passive observers versus active engagers of how the culture should be defined and how families should be structured and cared for and protected and guided from a spiritual sense.
[00:10:34] Speaker B: You know, it's interesting. It's. It's very few cultures that evolve to the point that where being that protector is a bad thing. Right. Like, it just. It's kind of weird. You know, no one appreciates a warrior till the enemy is at the door. Right. And that's not just a physical enemy, but that could be a spiritual enemy, that. Things like that. Right, Absolutely. And I think sometimes when life is too good, we get to coasting and we Realize that, man, maybe we don't need God. Maybe we did this all by ourselves. And that's where that easy times make weak people. Right? But it needs to continue to build and be those discipling during those times as well.
[00:11:18] Speaker A: No, you're right. And you know, Jeremiah 35, 18, 19 says, highlights and talks about the importance of passing down faith to the generations. You know, there, there's this really common thing of wanting to bash generations nowadays. And. But I'm like, if we really took a look at the mirror, if you're older than the younger generation, you might be a parent, uncle, aunt, grandparent to that younger generation. So you probably pause and take a look at what impact you had on that younger generation person that you're bashing and why they're on the railroad tracks that they are. We don't like to do that. It's easier just to point out the negative and say, oh, this generation is softer and weaker. Well, you know, I think, you know, the greatest generation, as society has labeled that generation, not necessarily that they were, but they probably looked back and said, you know, we walked across Europe and through the Pacific and my children are slapped weak. Well, it goes to the quote that I completely butchered is that those very strong men and those women that held down the fort from an industrial standpoint, they created some really great and golden times. And that translated not necessarily to passing down those spiritual things that Jeremiah is talking about and making sure that that strong faith. You go to Europe on vacation, the cathedrals are beautiful. But if you talk to some of the locals, the older folks especially will tell you, like, yeah, we might have a service here, actual church service, on like a holiday. But other than that, the young people have no foggy clue. And I think increasingly in churches, we're seeing that here in America, as I call it, the great dechurching has started where only 20% of Americans, according to Gallup, attend church weekly.
You know, 54% of men that were raised in Christian homes, according to Pew Research, are now unaffiliated. So when you look at that impact of faith being removed so dramatically, you have to ask a couple questions. One, what's the impact? And then two, where are all these men and people going to find their sense of truth, their sense of values, their sense of morality? And when we look around and you see certain things happening, well, there, there's your sign, right?
[00:13:34] Speaker B: You highlight some good points. So when we talk about generations, I did a bunch of research years ago on generations, and the truth is, is every generation believes the One coming after them are weak.
I wish I'd grabbed it. I have in. I have in my possession a 1917 World War I PT manual. Right. And I also have a 1942 training circular for the. When they said, hey, we need to change how we conduct physical fitness to meet the needs. And then the 1946 version, I don't think it's written in the 42, but it's definitely written in the 46 and the 1917. It says this current generation is weak.
Both of those, they said the industrial machines have made them weak. Now, when I think of my grandfather week is not the. Not what comes to mind. Like he fought in North Africa all the way up into Italy. That was not it. Right?
[00:14:35] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:14:36] Speaker B: I think about the World War I generation and none of them do. I think, man, that that's a weak generation. Right. Like seeing how they met that challenge and so forth. But it's that natural inclination to divest of the younger generation. But the truth is, is it's that it's that lie that we keep telling ourselves, right?
[00:15:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:02] Speaker B: I think during hard times, a lot of guys come back, they're extremely grateful to be out of hard times. Right. And you know, we think about the 1950s being that golden era, but in reality we just had a pause.
The world wants to know we just were untouched by World War II. The rest of the world was dealing with the aftermath. So it gave us that natural lull and oh, this is the golden era, the happy days era. Right?
[00:15:26] Speaker A: Yeah. No, you're right, Jason. You know, there is a tremendous impact when men take a seat, when you high fived on the objective, wherever it is, you're successful. Now you have a lot of money in your bank account or whatever you define as successful. And then you look around that my only goal now is to pass off material knowledge and not the hard work, not the spiritual discipline that it requires to maintain such quote, unquote success, then that's what happens. You know, here's the one from Promise Keepers in Baptist press. When a father doesn't practice faith, Christian faith, only one in 50 children will remain faithful.
You know, and why does this matter? You know, our society is very fragmented, is unstable when men abandon spiritual leadership. Why? Because despite what critics or cynics may say, you can't define your own morality in yourself and then look to apply that to the world and hope for the best. Your morality has to be something that comes from outside of yourself. And whether people want to acknowledge it or not, that's what happens. And you see this being modeled throughout society. There is time and time again of cases of where we have prioritized attention seeking, putting the self on the pedestal for whatever the self may do. And there's numerous examples. But let me give you a local one that happened this past week. A young lady at the elementary school in our neighborhood who had a cell phone, she's in middle school, so you can guess the age range. She decided because she wants to go viral and wants to increase her Instagram account followers, to post that there was an active shooter threat outside the school. And so this complete school, a K through 8 school, was completely locked down. There were parents that were absolutely, as you can imagine, terrified.
[00:17:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:25] Speaker A: And the end result is the, what came out and was released to all the parents in the neighborhood in different places is the young lady wanted to. Was seeking more attention and felt that she was not getting it. She was promptly arrested. And her parents are also facing some legal battles. Now, as you can imagine. I say this is because there is a complete breakdown and how and what is important in that home. But I would be argued to say that there are probably dozens of people out there listening that might listen to this in the future. And you look at the broader society, you know, a lot of people that that's what's happening. And this is what I'm saying. When men don't step up and act as this bridge is saying, hey, it can't always be about you. It's not always should be about you. And when you look at the real principles, not when you ran into a bad Christian and what a bad Christian or a bad church or somebody endpoint, but when you look at the principles that Jesus espoused, it was about bringing goodness and truth and revelation, not about the self, but about something greater than the self, right? And that's where we're at right now. When we have men retreating from where their God given purpose is in society, you find more and more of these things are going to happen.
[00:18:41] Speaker B: You know, so a couple of things years ago, and I like listening to John Kirsten. Well, he had a. He had a. The thing is, is his sermon was preached in the 90s and he goes through the psychology behind. He goes, hey, in the 40s, this magazine, I think it was Time magazine and then it was Life magazine. He goes through the 50s and it goes through the most popular thing, right? And he goes down to, you know, Life People or Lifetime or whatever, Time Life People. And it keeps getting more and more narrow. And he goes, I'm gonna make A prediction if you'll make a million dollars. And back then, a million dollars was a lot. Still a lot to me, because I don't have it, but yeah. He goes, if you want to make a million dollars, all you got to do is get a magazine in which a mirror pops out and it's all about the person. Well, and then you look at how we have portrayed social media, Facebook, Instagram, all those things, it's all about you, right? It's all about the individual.
And we do, we put the individual above the collective. And you know, something you said earlier about when you get to the end of your time as a, as a husband, as a dad, it's more than being a physical provider. Right. Those are temporary things.
And I thought about that and I thought, you know, one of the strategies they do when you are planning out your life, they go, okay, tell me your one year goal, your five year goal, your ten year goal. Hey, dads, how many of you have an eternity goal? What do you think about that? Is it. Is success defined by how much you're children have in their accounts, or is it that they have a relationship with Jesus Christ and they're set for eternity? We think about the term eternity and it gives us this illusion that it's way off. Right.
And it's not. You get a date to enter into eternity. That's the date you are preparing for.
And if you as a dad, or you as a husband, or you as a good friend, if you're trying to disciple and lead people, if you don't have a goal, it's like that saying, if you don't have a destination, any road will get you there. Yeah. Because you're going nowhere.
You have to have the foresight in the present situation to be able to say, hey, five years from now, I need this person to be strong.
I need them to help them. You hit the nail on the head. There are a lot of guys who are, feel very alone, very isolated. They're struggling with, you know, this man. I'm, I ra. I was raised to be this kind of man. Now you're telling me it's toxic. Now you're telling me that holding doors is wrong. I had a lady one time, explained our workforce that she didn't like for men to hold the door for. I'm like, do you, do you want me to shut it on you? I. I'm kind of confused.
[00:21:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:37] Speaker B: Well, I'm just gonna lean into what I think's right, what I know is right. And you can always go in a Different door. I'll just hold the door for everybody and you can go in another one.
[00:21:46] Speaker A: I know you're right, Jason. And right. You know, as I think about this, you know, from, from let's look at it from a worldly standpoint. I found this quote from the Atlantic magazine, not a Christian magazine at all. And the author of this article is pronounced by themselves to be agnostic at best and probably borderline atheist. And this is what this individual said is, you know, religion for all its faults works a bit in religion in particular sub quotes. Christianity for all its faults, works a bit like a retaining wall to hold back the destabilizing pressure of American hyper individualism. Now this is someone who doesn't believe but they come to see as there has been this constant, you can't pray at school, you can't have FCAs, you can't have X, Y and Z gone. You have more women in the church serving and doing things than men. If you look on a Sunday morning, as these statistics have, you know, I've quoted have proved out, there's less and less men. And what this atheist, agnostic, borderline person has said is, well, what does that have had an impact on American society? And we see it this hyper individualism where my truth as you've heard so many people used from, you know, media, talking heads, etc, the truth in American society seems to be a variable which it is not which translates to family structures have become more weak.
Children don't have a rudderless, lack the discipline that fathers provide, safe, effective discipline to say, hey, it's not always about you. It's about, you know, serving and it's about us living a life that's pleasing to the king of kings and the Lord of Lords, which gives you a sense of purpose, which helps you become the best version of the self that you can as a family, as a wife, as a husband, as a mother, as a daughter. And you know, right now we are adrift and you have men that are searching. There's a reason why the self health industry is a multibillion dollar industry. This is why you have men flocking in droves to influencers and talking heads and different figures because they are searching and they're craving that discipleship that strong men of faith need to up and provide you.
[00:24:04] Speaker B: You said something and I think as a good leader and I had this, I learned this a long time ago as a, as a sergeant major that my position was more than my, was more than me, right? Like it counted more than me. My position counts more than Me, as a dad, my position counts more than me. You know, the maturity of that is you got to know how other people perceive you and how you impact the environment.
As a dad, if you are constantly looking for the next most funny, inappropriate show, that's the standard you're setting for your kids, right? Pick whatever TV show that you'd like, Right.
And you, by what you advocate for, you set the standard. Not saying don't have a sense of humor, but what I am telling you is, as a dad, understand the things you say and the things you do have greater impact than what you think. You know the very famous TV show with, with Talladega Nights, whatever, the movie, right? And Ricky Bobby goes, but, dad, you told me if I wasn't first, I was last. And he goes, ricky, I was probably high that day. Right?
You know, and that's a good example. And it's comical. I see you laughing. Everybody else, too, but it's a great example of, hey, man, think about things you say, right?
[00:25:29] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:25:30] Speaker B: God put you there. God did not orchestrate it. Where the kids were the, were the parent.
[00:25:36] Speaker A: No, they didn't.
[00:25:36] Speaker B: Or God did not orchestrate time. Where you and your kid were going through middle school together. God put you there to shine that light through the gray fog and go, hey, this is the right and left limits. Don't go off the cliff, all right? Like, that's being a leader. Like when you talk about being a leader, I've got a goal and we're going to get there.
And whatever that goal is, because I got a destination in mind. I'm going to nest all my efforts in behind it.
[00:26:05] Speaker A: Yes, sir.
[00:26:07] Speaker B: It may be unpopular at first to say prayer at supper table with your family if you're out there right now, but give it a whirlwind, right? You don't. As a leader, I don't need everybody's buy in to tell me I'm right. No, that's, that's not it. Like, think back to Joshua when he goes across the thing at Jericho. I love that. Thank you for that pearl of wisdom, by the way, Colby. Yeah. The angel goes, man, I'm not on your side. I'm not on their side. I'm on God's side.
[00:26:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm on my side.
[00:26:38] Speaker B: I'm on. I'm on God's side. This is where I'm at, is you as a leader. That's it.
[00:26:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:44] Speaker B: You know.
[00:26:46] Speaker A: No, you're right. And, you know, as we, you know, we come to our closing segment, what I would leave with, man, Is, you know, something. And I would ask you to listen to Jonathan's leftovers as there's going to be a little bit more that we're going to put on your plate that we can't put in this main episode. But, you know, if men are leaving, where do the strong men kind of enter this fight? And I think discipleship is the biggest thing that I would say. It doesn't have to be this crazy detail. I'm pulling out my devotional and pulling out my strongest concordance, and I'm going to waylay some guy. It can be sitting down to have a cup of coffee with a guy that's just going through something and you showing up and being that voice and being that light, it will turn the tide. Brotherhood. Me and this gentleman here, we live it and model it and. And we don't necessarily probably are even the best, but iron sharpens iron. Proverbs 27:17. If you do not have a Jonathan in your life, you don't have someone. Men out there listening, single moms trying to find someone for your sons, the Boys and Girls Club, YMCAs or something. Get someone in that person's life. Because there's nothing like being accountable, having someone that is not gonna just tell you it's all sunshine and roses and that can help refine you. And that's what God asked us to do and taking ownership. You know, guys, we just have to. You can't be worried about being popular as a family man, as a father, as a husband. That's just not how this works. A business leader, fathers and husbands leaders. We have to lead by example, as Jason said. And more importantly, as Jesus demonstrated very clearly for us. And here's a quote that I won't screw up, because this is the one that I wrote down for the show. Hard times forge men of strong faith. Men of strong faith disciple weak men. And discipled weak men grow into strong men of faith. And the cycle repeats.
So if you're struggling to find a godly mentor, go to your local church, reach out, email us. There's a lot of programs out there that really want to link men up and help them find community. Nowadays, in a society that is increasingly telling you you should be isolated on an island and not leading, if you're strong in faith, invest in others. It could be something as simple as turning them onto this podcast. This is not a shameless plug, but this is just one venue of us talking about iron, sharpening iron. And there's a lot of other great podcasts, a lot of other Great things out there that you can invest and help give to other men and then be the man your family and community need in that time of need. We're all the eggs. You know, besides my friend here who has chickens, might be the richest man in America. Like egg eggs, which I like. They're expensive. All right? So there are hard times. There are people going through things all around us that need men who follow Jesus Christ to step to the plate and knock it out the park. Jason, I'll turn it over to you for any other closing thoughts.
[00:29:39] Speaker B: No, you're absolutely right. One of the things that we have to remember is one of the key things that Satan's strategy is this isolation thing, right? Division and isolation. And he's not very happy when men come together because it's like the Bible says, two or more. You're gathered in my name there. I am right. Be accountable. And you need somebody in your life and you need disciple people that life's not about your feelings. Oh, hey. Yep. I can't believe that person said that. You need to retaliate back. Nope. What does Jesus say?
[00:30:14] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:30:14] Speaker B: Jesus says die to yourself.
So awesome.
[00:30:20] Speaker A: Well, folks, that is yet another episode of the Jonathan Project podcast where we are trying to help men navigate this tough and complex thing called life. If you want to find this episode and any episode, they drop every Tuesday morning at 6:00am Eastern Time or wherever you're at when 6:00am Strikes, you can find them on Spotify, Amazon Music, Apple, all kinds of places you can find them. We also have a TikTok page now where we put up a lot of previews. We put up little snippets from the show and trying to reach men families wherever they're at. That's what we're trying to do. If you found this inspirational, please reach out to us at the Jonathan Project podcastmail.com Again, the Jonathan Project podcastmail.com We love to hear your comments. If you're wanting prayer or as we put out there, if you're looking for resources to help you connect with other men that are going to help you become a strong man of faith or help you get through a present crisis, please reach out to us. We'd be more than willing to help link you up with some of those. Jason, again, thanks for your time this morning and yeah, I'll see you on Jonathan's leftovers. For everybody out there that knows we're going to talk a little bit more, give you a little bit more on that plate. But, yeah, thanks, folks.
[00:31:38] Speaker B: All right, see you.
[00:31:39] Speaker A: All right. Bye.
